One to One with CJ Mahaney

Nigel Ring talks to CJ Mahaney, who is based at Covenant Life Church, Gaithersburg in the Washington DC area of the USA. CJ leads and serves Sovereign Grace Ministries and is a longstanding friend of Newfrontiers.

NR: First of all, tell me a little bit about your childhood.
CJ: I grew up in a nominally Roman Catholic family and rebelled at an early age. I was immersed in the drug culture, partying and recruiting others to participate in a life of sin with me. When I was 18 a friend experienced the new birth. On a particular evening I began to smoke hash and offered him some. He declined and began to share the gospel with me. God acted upon my soul, I turned from my sins and trusted in the Saviour. How amazing grace really is, that the Father would send and sacrifice His Son for my sins!

NR: At what stage did you meet Carolyn?
CJ: Not long after my conversion. Towards the end of the Jesus Movement in the ’70s I attended a meeting of around 75 young people. For reasons I certainly didn’t understand, the adult leadership asked me to speak. I preached from Nehemiah 8:10 on ‘the joy of the Lord is your strength’. Other speaking invitations unexpectedly began to come. Carolyn worked in Sarasota, Florida, as a secretary at a Christian ministry. One of the leaders invited me to speak at this Christian centre. When I accepted I didn’t anticipate being invited at a later date to speak at one of the largest Christian festivals in the country, Jesus 74. As a new convert I attended Jesus 73, an outdoor festival, for 20,000 young people. When I was invited to speak at Jesus 74 I had already made a commitment to speak in Sarasota so I fulfilled this commitment despite a desire (not necessarily pure!) to respond positively. Little did I know that awaiting me would be my wife! After 30 happy years I look back on that as the sweet kindness of God. I can’t imagine what life or ministry would be like apart from her influence and personal example.

NR: The romantic CJ! Someone in your church in a similar position would now be discipled. How did you come to an understanding of the importance of discipleship?
CJ: As a new Christian, I was very aware of my need for personal care, training and discipleship. I met with various men, desiring to be fathered. It never materialised. As a result, I remember in my early 20s walking, praying to God that in due course He would allow me to provide for younger men in some way what I had pursued and never found.

In starting Covenant Life Church we created a context where we could equip young men in particular. Now, through our pastors’ college, we can direct young men who are called so that they can explore and be equipped for that calling. They have what I didn’t have.

NR: Tell me about your church.
CJ: Part of what started the local church was my relationship with Carolyn. Imagine me with shoulder-length hair. Now, Carolyn’s dad is a very conservative Mennonite; my appearance alone would be shocking! But, when I asked his permission to marry Carolyn his only condition was that he wanted her to be involved with me in a local church. So part of the reason I started the church was so that I could marry Carolyn!

We had a group of about 75 young people meeting toward the end of the Jesus Movement. What happened next is the closest I have come to revival – it certainly cannot be attributed to my preaching! That group ended up exceeding 2,000 within two years! It was just a Tuesday night gathering with a simple format of worship, teaching and prayer in Washington DC, which drew the attention of the entire area as well as the media. It continued for seven years.

Studying Acts and Ephesians, I began to catch a vision for the local church; I was concerned that those attending were assuming this was their local church. But we weren’t a church; people were just converging upon a meeting. So we really began to think the unthinkable, stopping this hugely successful meeting and starting a local church.

Having had 2,000, we started with just 22. An observer would have thought ‘that’s a very unwise young man’. But God’s purpose always has been the local church and there wasn’t a better investment of my time than to serve in the context of Covenant Life. I have never had any regret.

NR: So, you are in full-time Christian ministry without training or experience?
CJ: This should be investigated, Nigel! Yes, less than two years after I am converted, without any theological training, I find myself speaking in various conferences and leading. But I didn’t assume I had a call to pastoral ministry. I was seeking counsel from individuals; there was a group of men, who even wanted to subsidise my education for a position within the Catholic structure. That I found very unappealing.

I got a job at a Christian bookstore because I had an insatiable appetite to read. Boxes of books would come in the morning and it was like Christmas every day! I just chose the books I wanted to read that day; I saw customers as an interruption! The manager rightly corrected me. By 21 I was reasonably certain that my future involved preaching.

NR: Who are the people who shape your life theologically these days?
CJ: That is a great question! I am always standing on somebody else’s shoulders when I preach. That’s why I get a better view, on the shoulders of the greats in church history, as well as contemporary scholars and theologians of today. I have never had an original thought – I think I am too proud for God to trust me with one!

Somebody just asked me, ‘I want to see what you see in Scripture.’ I took time to explain the reading, study and hard work that is involved. I didn’t want them to think that somehow this comes from casual or superficial reading. There are incredible rewards for those who will devote themselves to study and hard work. We had just heard Terry preach on Gideon. I said, ‘If you could put up on the screen how many hours he studied that book and prepared this sermon, it would be a wonderful education for people. It may seem to be effortless but, if a message is substantive, if it has been well crafted, there is a history of previous hard work, study and preparation.’

Historically, Charles Spurgeon is my hero. When preaching at Covenant Life, I like to find if Spurgeon preached on the text I have been assigned and read his sermon.

We could start with names like Luther, Edwards, Owen. Through their writings they have become my friends and teachers. If we go modern-day, men like Wayne Grudem, Don Carson, RC Sproul, John Stott, John Piper, Jerry Bridges. Don Carson’s book The Cross and Christian Ministry has defined pastoral ministry for me. We must, as pastors, lead by example and devote ourselves to this task of study. We must then transfer an appetite for reading to our people so they can take advantage of these gifted teachers and their writings in their own study of Scripture.

NR: How do you impart that to your church people?
CJ: First, a pastor must be convinced of the importance of and the transforming effect of sound doctrine. When people experience the transforming effects of knowing and applying sound doctrine that helps to create and sustain an appetite for it. This will increase their appreciation for reading and studying sound doctrine.

One of the ways I seek to create an appetite for reading is by using quotes from those I’ve mentioned strategically in my preaching. By isolating certain quotes I am hopefully transferring an appetite for reading this particular work by this particular individual.

In the history of our church I have been responsible for our bookstore. When Josh became senior pastor, he wanted me to continue to oversee the bookstore. Recently I created a Book Club. We invited members of the church to read Knowing God together. I did messages on ‘why read’, ‘how to read’, and then we’d give them a schedule for reading. At the conclusion we met for discussion and application.

These are just a few of the ways I have attempted to create an appetite for reading sound doctrine as a means of experiencing transforming grace.

NR: You mentioned Josh. What is it that you saw in him as a leader?
CJ: One of my earliest prayers was that God would allow me to identify and train my successor. In my mid-twenties I was already praying about being replaced one day. I am grateful that I have seen the fulfilment of those prayers in Joshua Harris. That transition was the most meaningful ministry experience I have had. Joshua is probably the most broadly gifted individual I have met. When I first met him, he was a best-selling author, going from city to city with conferences.

In my initial conversation with him, I vividly remember sitting there, as he was asking me questions about his future, thinking that this young man is wise beyond his years. He was talking about being trained, intending to draw some specific response from me. I talked about the importance of the local church. ‘You’ve got to find your Paul, someone to train you,’ I said. ‘You must do this first by talking to the pastor of your local church, in Portland, Oregon.’ He became convinced he wanted me to train him. I met with his parents and I will never forget the unselfishness of his father. This is holy ground; I am being entrusted with the training of their son.

Josh came to live with us; I saw a young man who had giftings I didn’t have. What was most pronounced was his humility and his desire to be trained. His aggressiveness in pursuing counsel, his humility and the immediacy with which he would respond to correction, it all just won my trust so that I could delegate to him the church I loved the most. I said to him, ‘Other than entrusting my daughters to their husbands, I can make no louder statement of my trust in someone, my respect for someone, than to entrust this role and this church to them.’

NR: What was the size of the church when he took over last September?
CJ: It was something over 3,000.

NR: Living in your home, what would he see in terms of your personal disciplines, prayer and so on?
CJ: I hope he would see someone who has largely put aside legalistic matters in relation to discipline but I don’t think we ever outgrow the temptation to legalism. We will fight it until our dying breath. I have sought to live by God’s grace a cross-centred life that has protected me from legalism, but not the absence of discipline. Discipline is an expression of grace, but not the basis of my justification, forgiveness, or acceptance by God. I hope that is what he has been able to observe and learn.

As Donald Witney says in his excellent book on Spiritual Disciplines for the Christian Life, the practice of the spiritual disciplines are not optional. I seek to daily devote myself to different disciplines. That begins with reading and meditating on Scripture. From my reading and meditating, I pray and worship. What George Müller said about our first responsibility being to make our soul happy in God is wise counsel. From reading Scripture I am making my soul happy in God. My normal practice is to choose a book of the Bible to study; right now the gospel of Mark. I journal from that study, assisted by William Lane’s fine commentary. I have a scholar there at my side, holding my hand. I find a context where I am not distracted and have time so that I am unhurried. That makes all the difference, drawing near to God and experiencing His nearness.

NR: Let’s move wider. Can you tell me about your apostolic ministry?
CJ: We are relatively small in comparison to Newfrontiers, but Sovereign Grace has outgrown my ability to remember all that’s going on. What has encouraged me the most is international expansion. Our desire hasn’t been to repopulate other countries with middle-class Americans, but to serve men in countries who are already labouring, as well as learn from them. We have been able to do that in Mexico, Ethiopia, India, Cuba, Wales, Uganda, Ghana, Zambia, Sri Lanka, Bolivia and a number of other countries. We are the richer because of these relationships. The example of Terry and Newfrontiers have been a primary means of inspiration for us in church planting. When I see how God has expanded Newfrontiers, I am so grateful for your example and my friendship with Terry.

NR: How would you sum up your mission?
CJ: Advancing the gospel through planting and building local churches for the glory of God.

NR: Where do the poor fit?
CJ: In this area as well, Nigel, we are looking to learn from you. We are novices. I want the readers to know that your influence exceeds your awareness and extends to a Sovereign Grace Ministries, to a CJ Mahaney. Sovereign Grace Ministries can observe, learn from, align ourselves with your pioneering work and avoid mistakes. On behalf of all those in Sovereign Grace huge ‘thank yous’ for all we have learned from Newfrontiers.

NR: What contribution can such families of churches as Sovereign Grace and Newfrontiers make to the wider body of Christ and the advance of the kingdom in our generation?
CJ: I want to answer that carefully and cautiously; we must not imply we consider ourselves a unique model worthy of emulation. We are pursuing humility and servanthood in the context of the local church for the purpose of the proclamation of the gospel and building churches around the world for the glory of God. I hope I am able to transfer what wisdom we have derived over three decades from our understanding of Scripture, from our practice in building churches, and from the mistakes we have made, as well as the kindness of God in working all things together for good. I would also hope that Terry’s and my friendship would make a statement about our heart to serve beyond our responsibilities in our respective ministries.

NR: Where do you see the worldwide church in twenty years time?
CJ: I recommend that you ask Terry that question! I have done too little travelling to speak about the church around the world and to even venture a look into the future of the church. I am encouraged that relationships are forming that transcend localities, even denominational affiliation. Men are finding each other from all over the world with a passion for the advance of the gospel of Jesus Christ in their country. That is a source of great encouragement.

Finally, I want to say that participating in Newfrontiers conferences and becoming the object of their affection and encouragement has been on the shortlist of ministry highlights for me. I cannot adequately express my gratefulness for the love and encouragement I have received from all in Newfrontiers.

One to One with CJ Mahaney

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